This post is a follow up to a post/review I did last year on Benjamin Moore Advance paint. You can read the first one here. I’ve been receiving emails almost daily about my opinion of this paint now that I’ve used it a few times and lived with the paint on pieces. If you want to know details about this paint like cost, ease of use, plus pros and cons please check out that first post.
My initial thoughts can be found in the original review post, but here is my current opinion about using Advance on furniture. Let me be very clear in saying these are my opinions and my experiences. Other people may have opinions and experiences that differ from my own and that’s great. I welcome those. There are also others who have found ways to successfully use this paint without the same problems I have encountered. I also want to say I love Benjamin Moore and am still a customer who uses their products.
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On my quest for finding the best paint I tried Benjamin Moore’s Advance in April 2015 after reading good things about the paint online and at the recommendation of BM employees. I took the plunge and bought one gallon of off-the-shelf white in high gloss. My first experience was pretty good and so a few months later I purchased a difference color for another furniture project.
After I initially posted about using the paint on this dresser (my first project with Advance) I received numerous messages from people who had also used Advance and had bad stories, although admittedly some good experiences as well, like me. I listened but hoped those things were not true for everyone. After painting the Salsa buffet, I was no longer a big fan of Advance.
I had problems with crazy orange peel (even with thinning), coverage, curing, and durability. Now, I had hardly any of those problems when using the white color, but the saturated color of Salsa was a whole entire different story.
The Problems
The 2 biggest things were 1. durability. The paint came off too easily. Little dings kept happening on edges and corners without the piece even being used very much. And 2. curing. I guess that kind of plays into durability, but that paint does not cure (well). So much so that I never even sold the piece that I used the paint on. A year later it is still kind of tacky and sitting in the garage. Very unfortunate because that’s a killer piece that I feel has gone to waste thanks to a bad paint choice. It’s going to a family member who is aware and okay with its imperfections, and maybe one day I’ll redo it. This paint is also very prone to drips and sags which are a paint to get out since the paint stay tacky and is difficult to sand.
Some people may not be concerned with the little spots of wear I saw on this piece, but as someone who refinishes and sells pieces I’m not willing to continue using this paint and take chances on the quality of the finish.
I gave Advance one more try when I painted a 9 drawer mid century credenza last October. The piece turned out well and I did not have the same problems I had with the Salsa piece. It did take a little longer to cure and not be sticky, but it did end up curing. I also painted my mom’s fireplace mantle with the high gloss white Advance and never had a problem with it being tacky. Items sit on it for months at a time and when they get picked up they don’t stick at all.
So, all that to say I had good and bad experiences. In some cases the paint seemed like it was a great option, and other times it didn’t provide the quality I wanted.
Here is a list of things that I think play a role in the curing and durability of Benjamin Moore Advance.
- weather/humidity (both when the paint is applied and as it cures)
- how thick the paint is applied
- sheen (lower sheen may be less tacky than high gloss)
- surface it is going over
- color? (saturation/pigment concentration)
I will also note that from what I understand, the VOC regulations set by the EPA for certain paints are so low that there aren’t enough VOC’s for paints to cure well.
The Outcome
Ultimately, I would say this paint is not best for furniture. There are other paints and finishes available that offer superior quality (in my opinion). When it comes to an item, like furniture, that sees more wear, a durable finish is needed. I still highly recommend General Finishes acrylic milk paints and High Performance Topcoats. As I am trying to do away with topcoats I have been trying oil paints. There will be a post about my experience with that later on.
What this paint is good for are surfaces that do not see as much high traffic. Specifically surfaces where things are not set on it. Trim, molding, fireplace surrounds, doors, etc. would be great candidates for this product. It might even work for the frame of a piece of furniture (sides, legs, and drawer dividers) since those areas don’t see high use like furniture tops.
I’ve been asked about using a topcoat with Benjamin Moore Advance. Like I talked about at the beginning of this post, I’m trying to eliminate topcoats in order to save me time (2-3 coats of paint plus 2-3 coats of poly is time consuming!). I think a topcoat might help with my two biggest problems and concerns about this paint – curing and durability. I know people who have used this paint with a topcoat and had great results, but I cannot personally share about it since I have not tried the combination. If you try it or have tried it let everyone know your experience in the comments 🙂
Would I Use it Again?
I wouldn’t say I won’t use the paint again, because I would use it again. I will just be cautious about where and how I use it. In instances where I want a pure white, oil white can’t compete with a water-based white. That’s where I would consider using Advance again. For now I am still on the quest to find the best paint for furniture. There will always be pros and cons to each and there is no perfect paint, but I’ll keep you in the loop as I experiment with new (to me) products.
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If anyone has used Benjamin Moore Advance paint, please share your experience in the comments. I know I would love to hear about it and I’m sure others would like to as well. If you have further questions about the paint I did not cover leave them in a comment. I’ll do my best to respond to those 🙂
-Reeves
Isn’t milk paint kind of transparent? What if you are looking for a paint that isn’t transparent? What else have you used with success?
No, milk paint is not transparent unless you water it down or use thin coats. Traditional milk paint, which come in powder form and you mix up, is something that can be mixed into a thin form and be transparent and used as a wash, but General Finishes Milk paint (which I mentioned in this post) is an acrylic paint. It comes in a can like regular paint and is really great for furniture. GF paints or Sherwin Williams acrylic/latex would be my water-based go-to choice.
I’m skeptical that Sherwin Williams products are any better. I went to one of their stores and told them I was painting furniture. They recommended I use latex all surface enamel. I had them mix up a dark brown paint, I believe the sheen was satin. I painted a coffee table and it was still tacky months later.
I’ve used SW Pro-Classic with a topcoat (it does need one to not be sticky) and it’s been great. If you don’t want to be dealing with a paint and topcoat pair then it’s probably not right. Sorry your project didn’t go as planned… I’ve been there many times!
I don’t think that Pro Classic can be mixed in dark colors because it doesn’t come in a deep base or something like that which is why they gave me the all surface enamel . I had good luck with Benjamin Moore waterborne satin impervo. I only ever used white, not sure if that can be tinted dark either.
What are you implying when you say top coat?
I used the Behr alkyd paint similar to advance used a red colour had issues with it being tacky they recommended wiping down with mineral spirits, still had issues with it being tacky. I contacted Behr and got a fresh can and had no issues. This being said I have bought and used several shades of Advance from blush to grey to navy no issues love it. I even used it on a table top it went on smooth was beautiful to work with. Because it was a table top I did put a pokycrylic top coat.
I used the Advance two separate times, once brushing and once spraying interior doors. Both times I experienced uneven sheen that I couldn’t correct. I ended up having to sand and reprime and then used the Ben Moore Ultra Spec and had flawless results. Simply put the Advance paint sucks and many people on the web have had problems too in one way or another.
I am a retired professional government certified Tradesman Qualification painter with 42 years of experience and also a SSPC member. I’ve recently used Benjamin Moore’s Advance, white gloss. I am very disappointing with the results, it flows VERY poorly [I only used top grade tools] even after I added Floe Trol paint conditioner. I know that Alkyds are difficult to apply, but Advanced is on top of the list for problematic. I do not recommend this paint
Instead, I’ve used Sherwin Williams All Purpose white gloss water borne enamel with EXCELLENT results. High opacity, excellent flowing and self leveling qualities, dries quickly allowing to apply several coats within a couple of hours, low odor. Being a Water Borne Enamel, it will eventually chalk on exterior applications.
I used on my kitchen cabinets turned out perfect I also used primer first. Sanded first,primer then sanded first coat of paint light sand then final paint took forever but look like brand new
I used BM Advance in majenta/purple on a dresser for my daughter. The saleslady told me it would be self priming and would harden really well. I painted it and waited over 2 weeks before moving it to her bedroom. Within a few months it had numerous nicks and dings. it was disappointing as I had put effort into making over my daughters room for her. it was just a pressboard dresser so not a big loss other than the time and the desire for her to have a pretty room. it is good to hear that the white holds up better.
I’ve been told by BM employees that Advance is great for furniture and I definitely disagree after using it a few times. You have to be so careful and prep and prime really well. Even then, it doesn’t cure well. I do think there are other paints out there that better suited for furniture. Thanks for sharing!
How did you prepare the pieces?
I am a paint contractor I’m Nashvill Tn. The best way to paint kitchen cabinets or furniture is to to first know your substrate.Is it an oil or latex your painting over. A lot of the time if its old furniture or could be lead so if you thimk it’s painted before 1978 do a lead test. I suggest using bin shall primer to assure adhesion and prevenr bleed through. My choice of top coat is PPG Breakthrough.. You can not go wrong with this paint. Will adhere to oils sets fast easy to to apply and drys extremely hard. The best thing about it of you make a mistake its able to be sanded and not roll Like other latex paint. Hands down its the best paint on the market.
Use a shellac based primer for a great finish. Shellac will stick to almost everything and everything will stick to shellac. Sealcoat or Zinsser BIN. Mother Nature knows what she’s doing!
I don’t know why she would tell you it primes itself I always recommend priming with stix when painting on cabinets or furniture. If it’s bare wood the Advance primer is best. I could see how you would have issues with it chipping.
Sorry about that experience.
I am a painting contractor, I DO NOT BELIVE IN A SELF PRIMING MATERIALS, alway prime regardless, also when you are dealing with deep colors, it will take at least three coats, so try to spray very light coats and wait over night in between, deep colors take longer to dry. Also when you finish your project make sure to understand that the paint is dry but it will take over a month to cure hard.
Never trust 100% the person that is behind the counter, they are good people but they are not painters, the know what you can know if you read the back of the paint can. Best advise is to write in places like this BEFORE YOU START YOUR PROJECT, so you can get the best advise.
Can a glaze be use with Benjamin Moore Advance? I was told by a Benjamin Moore rep (I emailed the company) that it cannot. I want to paint my kitchen cabinets white or ivory and then glaze them. The more I read the more confused I get.
My husband was so exasperated when trying to paint our bathroom cabinets with BM that he said he would NEVER use it again. Now we are doing our kitchen cabinets and have no idea what to use. The BM was tacky and too FOREVER to dry, lint kept sticking to it, etc. and he sanded and sanded and tried everything to keep each door he painted protected till it dried. What a nightmare-it took literally 2 months to paint bath cabinets in 2 bathrooms and we are not talking only a total of 7 doors for both and small areas inside! Never again!
I would be absolutely thrilled if you gave Sherwin Williams cashmere line a try. It’s pretty bad ass but I would love to know your professional opinion! Keep trying out products I know you will report back to us with the best! Best, the_copper_brush
I’ll look into it and see. As I continue trying to find the best paint for me I’ll share my thoughts and experiences. 🙂 Thanks for reading!
Just used it on a wall. Hale navy color and very slippery. Like pudding. Not good coverage but pretty when it dried.
Reeves, you know I am a fan of General Finishes products for furniture along with their HP Top Coats. When we moved into a new home a year ago, our painter used the BM Advanced on the trim and it’s held up beautifully. I decided to paint the bookcases in our family room with the leftover BM Advanced and it’s still not fully cured on the horizontal services…and it’s been about 10 months now! So needless to say, I’ll not be trying the Advanced on any furniture pieces but I’d use it in a heartbeat on interior trim.
Glad to see you’re back blogging! 🙂
Yes Robin, the curing can be a problem. Was it white or a light color?
Regal Pearl is a better product for horizontal surfaces because it cures quicker and won’t be as tacky. It’s still super durable.
Sometimes the existing paint on the surface and the new paint like Advance can react with each other and could cause orange peels or a forever tacky surface. To avoid this, you need to seal / prime the surface. Not all primers are sealers but sealer is already giving you a natural surface to work with. I would still prime it after. You need to lightly sand, but if you sanded through the sealer, you need to seal it again. Choose your sealer and primer to fit the paint you prefer to use. This preparation also helps holding up better against dings and chipping.
I have used advance to paint my entire kitchen, trim, and doors and could not be happier. The key to Advance is to use thin coats and let it cure for at least 48 hours sand if needed and recoat. If you do not allow the first layer cure time you will have tacky issues.
I have done that. Thin coats and letting it cure for a week between coats and it still never fully cured. It’s just not the best paint for furniture.
I am using this product on a wall of cabinets and bookcases that I just built for a client. I made one test piece on the plywood used and it dried perfectly on the first coat… Not sure why others seem to be reporting issues. I’ll post further thoughts as I go along with painting the actual pieces I am building. Once thing I am doing is trying to follow directions provided by BM… Advance Primer, thin coats, proper dry time between coats, forced air circulation during the drying period.
I honestly don’t think I will use this product again though, even if it turns out flawless. The drying and then full cure time just takes too long for both the labor end and also the time the client will have to wait before using the bookcases…
I used benjamin moore advance (white- no tint) on solid maple kitchen cabinets I made along with all the mouldings and wainscoting, shelves etc, made out of oak, pine, maple and poplar and found it to be the best paint I ever used. I followed the salesperson’s advice and used the advance primer (2 coats, applied at least 16 hours apart) and then several thin coats of the paint also waiting at least 16 hours between coats. It literally took a month down in the basement 3 hours a day to paint all the wood for my wife’s dream kitchen. But I was patient because after custom making all that stuff it was a labor of love. The all white woodwork kitchen has held up for a year with no problems- I have six kids and a wife who just about lives in that kitchen and that paint takes a beating but easily wipes clean, doesn’t chip and stays glossy and fresh looking.
Kudos to you for taking on a job like that to make your wife a happy gal!
hello! we are thinking about using BM Advance for our kitchen cabinets.. did you use satin or semi gloss? thannks!
PLEASE do not use Advance or any other trim paint on cabinets. It is simply not durable enough to withstand the abuse. Think about something with an added hardener. 2k Polyurethane, pigmented Conversion Varnish or the like. Trim paint IS NOT for fine furniture or anything else that gets constant use.
Alex I am curious what kind of climate do you live in? How was the termperature when you undertook this project?
I’m doing my kitchen cabinets. Bought a HVLP sprayer. Started with STIX primer with I think is now owned by BM. I then followed with BM Advanced in a gray. I’ve only done one draw and door panel. The wife does not like the color so I’m switching gears. After reading your review on Advanced I’m looking for a different “best” paint recommendation. I am going to use General Finishes top coat. So the million dollar question, what would you recommend?
I would consider an oil based paint (unless it’s white/light because it could yellow). An acrylic with high quality topcoat would be good too, just don’t cheap out.
I haven’t tried it yet but have read good things about Target Coatings EM6500. It’s a water based lacquer. https://www.targetcoatings.com/product/emtech-em6500-wb-bright-white-pastel-lacquer/
I did a full set of kitchen cabinets in the white semigloss BM advance. 6 months later and I have nicks and dings almost anywhere that sees regular use (silverware drawer, glasses cabinet). I used the advance primer 2 coats with more than enough cure time in between (over two weeks). I would not suggest using, and does not compare in durability to BM Impervo, which I have used on over 50 homes, but EPA crackdown on oil alkyds had me try Advance. I will go back to Impervo with my next set of cabinets (probably the ones I just completed)
I only use stix as a primer and advance then stays clear top coat.all sprayed never had an issue.advance is an amazing paint ,j10% reduction for spray.
I painted our kitchen cabinets with Advance and love this paint. The finish is perfect and has dried hard. I primed with zinsser and sanded between coats. We used a sprayer and sprayed it thin. One coat of primer, two of paint. The cabinets look professional.
I’m giving Advance Semi Gloss white a try on some custom bookshelves I’m building. Shiela – did you prime with Zinsser BIN or 123? I went with BIN, as it’s been my standby for blocking any stains from wood knots bleeding through, and sticks to anything, have never had any issues with it as an undercoat for any other paint.
Just put on the first coat (I learned the hard way that Advance needs to be back-brushed to take out any bubbles left by the roller, even a nice Purdy 1/4″ nap left tons of bubbles), waiting a day before hitting it with some scour pads and putting the second coat on, will see how it goes!
Use a sponge roller advance semi gloss simple white is my go to trim and door choice rarrly have any problems unless on bare wood that should have been stixd
I learned the hard way that using a melamine roller is the only way to with advance paint
WHat finish did you use. I’m looking a high gloss gray
Awful experience with this paint!
Me too!! BM Advanced was a terrible choice for my kitchen cabinets. Someone said it goes on like syrup and thats pretty much EXACTLY how I feel…
It’s fantastic paint. What sort of prep-work did you do? On horizontal surfaces, I apply it slightly thicker so it can level out more, and on vertical surfaces you have to do multiple thin coats to prevent running. Just finished painting an old desk with it and love the results.
Built closet drawers and shelves 6 months ago and used Advance. It seems to be holding up very well. Did our kitchen islands with advance, semi gloss,dark grey a month ago. Some new wood, and some over existing factory cabinets. Seems to be doing fine. Most had one coat of primer, 2-3 coats of paint. Combination of brush, roller and spray.
Currently painting all kitchen cabinets – they were factory finished very smooth wood. Spray prime, sand, then 3 coats. Have some done, looking good. Did one with no prime and it looks even better. SEEMS to adhere well after a good cleaning and very light sanding. They have been drying well – using a cheap (Wagner Flexio 890) and working well. Been able to sand after 20-24 hours just fine.
What did you use to sand between coats?
I’ve had good luck with white satin Advance on all my trim work. I’ve painted crown molding, matchstick wainscot, stair risers and skirt boards, base and shoe, etc. and it dries to a nice, smooth finish with pretty good self leveling. There was an initial learning curve for how thick to brush on the paint. Too thick and I got sagging. Too humid and it went on too tacky and was hard to smooth out. Adding a tiny bit of water seemed to help. I mixed a little water and paint in a separate container, not in the can. I have not tried it on furniture, but appreciate all the info above that there are better choices. In my experience, Advance has given my woodwork a nice, smooth and crisp white finish and I plan to use it throughout my home. Thank you for your informative blog posts!
Hi, It is interesting that when I painted my kitchen cupboards in our trailer the Advance paint went on beautifully and so now I am trying to paint some furniture. I used a sponge roller and got tons of bubbles everywhere. So I tried using a fiber roller and got the same thing.
I called the store to ask what I am doing wrong because these are the same rollers I used for the cupboards. They recommended me using a brush and now I have streaks. I sanded and try again and still have the same results. So frustrating especially when I loved using it the first time.
It’s a big expense for the troubles.
This is an update from my last comment. I took the can of paint back to the store and they replaced it with a new gallon. The batch I had must have had something wrong with it because the new can of Advance was perfect and went on beautifully.
I had the bubbles experience. I used a roller per ben moore instructions and bubbles would appear after drying. It is not nearly as durable as I have heard it should be, either. It has been about three years since I painted my kitchen cabinets in Ben Moore white dove advance (actually we had to custom mix to match white dove as the formula wasn’t right. don’t know why?) and I have several small nicks. And now when I try to touch up said nicks, my original can of Advance no longer matches the cabinets. Not too shocking I know, but get this– the paint in the can is too yellow for the paint on the cabinets. I would expect it to be the other way around. Ironically, one of my cabinet doors is painted in the Aura white dove (my first test door and I lazily never recoated in the Advance!) and it’s still pristine. And for what it’s worth, I took absolutely no shortcuts in my whole cabinet process! sanding, priming, sanding, priming, cleaning, etc etc then several thin coats of Advance spaced many hours apart. So, yes, I had cabinet doors hanging all around my house for weeks! 🙂
full circle – I bought Advance a year or two ago (trim and cabinet – white hi gloss and reg. gloss to splay with a Apollo HVLP) based on advice form this website! That experience was fine, and product held up well.
Coincidently stumbled upon you again because I was searching for a brushing trim. Based on everything I’ve read as of know – I’m going to pick up some more of it. I definitely respect your opinion – but I’m also using white.
Here’ a tip of two for others… Mix the paint REALLY well – even it it was shaken at store the day before. Normally – if the a normal paint was shaken within a week, I wouldn’t even consider spoiling a stir stick, but this one needs blending. I now have a small drill mounted spinner.
For spraying, I used Apollo’s latex needle – sorry don’t remember the size it’s called, and thinner with water.
another note – it’s really interesting that you suggest that the environmental concerns are limiting the amount of ‘solvent’ they are able to use – and that’s effecting the paint.
I occasionally use SW paint when it’s on sale – and know they have different version of same paint – one that puts off 50 (can’t remember units, related to VOC output.) and another pro-version that puts out double that. I suspect many manufactures are trying to comply with rules – and that what’s causing advance problems in some cases…
I used Linen White and also a Dark Brown on our kitchen cabinets about 3 years ago and they have held up great. I’ve also used black on some cabinets in ouir family room and those have held up great as well. I sanded the cabinets lightly, primed with a Zinser 123 primer. The based cabinets were painted with a foam roller and brush and the doors and drawer fronts were sprayed. I am in a dry climate and humidity can cause problems for Advance paint. The specs say that you should wait 16 hours to recoat in mild conditions (warm temps and low humidity). Lower temps and higher humidity you have to wait longer. Also, Advance paint can take up to 30 days to completely cure and harden. In my experience, it’s not hard to apply, but it does have things you need to take into consideration that you don’t need to worry about with regular paints.
Hi Reeves- I, too, have had a disappointing experience with BM Advance on two night tables. Too many drips and tacky two weeks later, drawers sticking, etc. Grrr.
I need to paint new oak kitchen cabinets WHITE. It’s a vacation home out of state, so waiting 16 or 20 hours between coats isn’t an option when I’m only there for a couple days a month. Can you recommend a brand/line of paint that I can turn to for kitchen that needs to look good but not too hard use and won’t take the rest of my life to complete, please?
I love love love General Finishes and that is my first go to usually but I have been using the BM Advance lately in satin only and I love it- I have both rolled and sprayed on- I feel like my finish was flawless with the spmrayer once I got the correct amount of water mixed in!
Nothing beats the leveling ability of GF milk paint its the best but not as durable as I am enamel which is what I was looking for in the Advance line 🙂
What was the best paint to water ratio you found? I think I added 1/4 cup per gallon and it was still too thick. Love to know what you found words best.
I have used BM Advanced on furniture and my kitchen cabinets. You should also know, I am a professional painter. I never had an issue with anything I painted with Advanced. Why? I prepped the surfaces properly. First, I completely and totally remove the previous finish on a piece of wood furniture. To get the job done quickly, I use a sander with 40 grit paper. Afterward, I repair dings and dents with wood filler. Next, I sand the surface again with 80 grit, then 100 grit and 150 grit. The step is priming. If the primer does not coat evenly — guess what? You did a crappy job sanding and left some of the original finish. After applying two coats of primer. I let it cure for 24 hours before lighting sanding. Then I apply the Advanced paint using a spray gun. If you don’t have one a high-quality nylon brush (not a roller) will get the job done (it’s self-leveling.) I painted my kitchen cabinets two years ago, and they still look flawless. The same goes for my desk and built-in bookcase. A lot of people use a deglosser instead of standing- BIG MISTAKE. The paint won’t stick, and eventually, it will chip or orange peel.
May I ask what kind of primer you used to paint your built-ins with the Advance paint?
I agree! Priming and prep is the key! First time I tried this paint and love it!
yes! I built a new house but didn’t like any of the cabinet color options for my kitchen, so I had them install the lightest stain available on the birch cabinets. I did a lot of research and landed on using Advance. Based on the online recommendations and the store manager recommendations here is what I did:
Took off all doors and drawer fronts.
Deglazed/deglossed whatever you call it
Sanded
primed with Advance primer – I used a 2″ angled brush and the velour 4″ roller as recommended by the BM employee.
dried 24 hours.
sanded and wiped away dust
applied coat one of paint. My perimeter cabinets are in Wind’s Breath – OC 24. It’s a very light greige in the same family as classic gray. It’s really a beautiful neutral whiteish that pairs well with grays and browns. the base of my island is in 150% Bahaman Sea Blue (yes – turquoise!)
dried 24 hours. sanded. wiped off dust.
applied second coat.
waited 3 days or so before I reattached the doors and drawer fronts.
I was meticulous in my application. I used thin coats. I was patient. And it absolutely paid off. My kitchen is stunning. When professionals come over to do handywork jobs or whatever, they always comment how great my cabinets look and other than knowing they were painted, they can’t even tell.
Some added benefits – there have been a couple places that got scratched… from pointy objects. It’s a kitchen. dropping knives happens LOL … touchups are a piece of cake and blend right back in. I just sand, apply a dot of primer on any of the base wood that is exposed and follow the same methodology with applying, drying, sanding, applying 2nd coat. you cannot see the touchup spots. I used satin finish on all of my cabinets.
I’m currently painting an old sleigh bed frame in the wind’s breath.
the one point I will note is that I have not painted any horizontal surfaces with advance yet, so that may be the point where the curing really has an impact on the usage of a piece. I don’t see that limitation impacting the bedframe project though.
My advice – advance is the best product out there for kitchen cabinets. If you’re painting furniture, consider how the piece is used and whether you can wait to let the paint cure properly. If the answer is no, then don’t use advance. if yes, the go for it.
I have GF milk paint on my cabinets currently and would like to change the color. I am looking at the BM Advanced. Do I need to completely remove the GF milk paint first or will sanding and priming be enough to achieve a good finish?
I am doing the same thing. Have GF on my cabinets now and in a couple of weeks will be repainting with the BM Advance. Did you get an answer to your question? Did you finish you project? How did it turn out and are there any tips from going from GF to BM Advance?
Thanks!
Advance is a product that was developed and is renowned for it’s durability to be used on furniture, cabinet doors and trim. Depending upon the retailer, you may not have been given the recommended steps. Others decide not to follow every step and improvise on prep recommendations and products.
-First step is to give the entire piece a scuff sand to “rough up” the surface and give teeth to the surface to accept product.
-Second step is that this product absolutely requires specialized primer underneath it. The very best recommendation is Stix Bonding Primer (which is a thinner primer used for adherence of the Advance) or Fresh Start (which has exactly the same adherent properties as Stix in it, however also has the benefit of higher hiding qualities to cover darker colours or to provide a thicker coating and fill in very minor imperfections or minimize wood grain). Both of these primers act much like double sided sticky tape, adhering to the item being painted and to the Advance paint. Without it, the Advance will be at high risk of chipping. The Advance product line now has it’s own primer, however I have not received any feedback on it yet so cannot speak to it’s results.
-Third step, when the primer has dried (4-6 hours) is to do another light scuff sand to rough up the surface again to give the Advance something to stick to.
-Fourth step is your first coat of Advance. After you apply this coat, you will have to be very patient as the second coat must not be applied for at least 16 hours. It is a longer wait time, but the longer wait time is due to it being a waterborne alkyd paint with the benefits of a soap and water clean up. The long wait time is also what gives the product it’s “self levelling” properties and is why you see few, if any, brush stroke marks in the final result. Other added tips are to use the softest bristle brush you can find (I like the Wooster Silver Tip), and if you use a roller, use a flocked roller with the tiny “hairs” (they are usually yellow foam rollers that look very slightly fuzzy), as the “hairs” knock down any small bubbles that arise while applying the Advance paint for a smooth application.
-Fifth step is to do one more very light scuff sand and apply the final coat. It is very important to note that the product does not cure to a hard, enamel-like finish for 30 days. After that time, you should end up with a durable, chip-free, peel free finish that will last for years to come. Items that are placed on a shelf prior to the full 30 day cure are likely to leave permanent indents, again because of the self-levelling properties of the product and the product not being fully cured.
If you are having issues of colour coverage, you also have the option of using a tinted primer. This is usually a rare issue noticed with very bright or deep colours and can also be resolved with a third coat. You can also return to Benjamin Moore to have the product adjusted with more tint. The only people (not too many) I have ever seen return with disappointment in the product omitted one of the steps or just disregarded the advice about the use of the product altogether. Almost every customer I have sold this product to that followed the directions has returned to either tell us how pleased they were, buy more for a different product, or has referred friends and family to purchase the product themselves.
Hope that helps!
Allison… Which Fresh Start formulation is recommended if STIX is not used? Thank you!
Sorry… I meant to type Alison!!
I have followed these steps as stated by the Benjamin Moore sales person, with the only issue being the primer used. I had already used a Kilz oil based primer before I purchased the paint, and mentioned that before purchasing it and was told it would be fine. Hopefully they will be.
My question though is if I can use a top coat with this and what kind. I am assuming a polycrylic would be ok?
Please help no one not even Benjaminmoore can tell me weather to use a oil based or water based poly or acrylic to coat this paint
Leslie, definitely a WB poly, however make sure your paint has cured a spell before applying. The paint and poly dry at different speeds so uncured paint can shrink and cause your poly to craze.
DONT TOPCOAT ADVANCE!
It’s not designed to be top coated and it doesn’t need one.
If using general finishes high performance topcoat on Advance, how long does it need to cure before topcoating? thank you
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Been reading the comments here and saw the one about Emtech 6500 (from Target Coatings). I’ve used that and been happy with the results–and the guy who owns the company, Jeff, is great with answering any questions you have. Best part is he custom matches BM colors. I usually order direct by phone, but I think you can order online too. Here’s the number I use 800-752-9922.
I’ve been painting furniture for many years and have never had this problem until recently. I sanded (it was an antique) primed with an oil based primer and painted with a sprayer SW paint, waiting 24 hours between coats and sealing with polycrylic. It was still tacky and peeling off weeks later. I went back to SW to see if they knew anything that could have resulted in this outcome. After calling a few of their troubleshooters, they came to the conclusion that it was a bad batch of paint. I did notice that it had a strong odor but was not the usual paint smell. It was a deep yellow color and they also said (initially) that it could be due to the color/base. Since I’ve never run into this issue, I’m guessing it was just a bad batch. Next time I smell something that doesnt smell like the usual paint smell, I will return vs using. Hope this helps!
I had the same problem with the oil based trim paint. It has been 4 weeks since I painted trim in my house with Sherwin Williams ProClassic alkyd interior enamel, and it still smells bad. I cannot use the room after waiting for a month. Moreover, the paint is peeling. There is something very wrong with that paint.
I love BM Advance. I have been painting furniture for years and the durability, shine and smoothness is incredible. I started using it because I could eliminate a top coat. I use a hvlp gun and wait 24 hours between coats. I wonder if I don’t have the problems i have read about because I live in AZ. No humidity here
I agree that both BM Advance and the SW ProClassic are less than optimal compared to oil base as far as durability. I think the SW is better constancy, sprays easier and dries a little faster while the BM is slightly (and I mean just slightly) harder.
I was recently recommended to try SW SHER-WOOD® KEM Aqua® Plus White. Supposed to dry hard (re-coat) in 30 minutes and usable in 12 hours although the person (NOT SW employee) said he always waits 24. Best feature is water only cleanup.
I just ran across your post this morning – thank you for the detailed review! I painted all of my kitchen cabinets with Advance 2 years ago. It’s an off-white shade (half white, half linen-white blend) and have had no problems with it. It’s the Satin finish. That said, they were knotty pine cabinets to start with the original shellac on them. I sanded and primed every single surface before painting. Not sure if that made the difference or not. I occasionally have a ding or to touch up, but with 2 teens in the family that’s to be expected.
Additionally, all of the trim work in my house is painted in semi-gloss, same white/off white mixture. No problems there.
I wonder if part of the problem is in mixing the deep colors? So much of the base has to come out to then add the tint – wondering if that impacts the consistency/lack of curing of the paint?
I am in the process of painting a bathroom vanity cabinet in a lighter grey color – again, in Advance – will update on how that turns out.
Again, thanks for your info!
Benjamin Moore’s GenX tinting system actually makes the paint stronger. It is a urethane resin.
First I have to say thank you Reeves for posting your experience with Advance. I’m currently working on a china cabinet project and am using Advance applied with HVLP sprayer. I have had very good success painting furniture in the past using flat latex acrylic and a poly topcoat but thought, like you, that eliminating the topcoat would be convenient. I sanded the project and used BIN primer before painting and so far it’s looking good. I’m so glad I read your posting about the drying time when I did and am allowing it to cure a couple of days before re coating Thanx
I needed a darker black to match pieces already painted, I thought black was black, but BM Advanced black looked grey in comparison. I’m painting bare mdf and started with Zinssser 123. i tried a flat painting pad. the first primer coat looked good the 2nd coat left sreaks, probably my fault trying to smooth out the primer by just one more stroke. Now the blackened paint first coat with the same paint pad was ugly and showed primer paint streaks. the second coat looks better, I switched to a mohair roller. High humidity here doesn’t help. I’ve had good luck with advance before, to my eye the darkening might have changed the satin sheen a little. Fingers crossed I’m going to leave it for a week and see about a third coat.
Try milk paint with a water born urethane in your desirable sheen. Two coat and your finish.
So sorry to hear that all of your effort and money went into the project and your results were not as you desired. I have used all sorts of paints for furniture and front doors for over 30 years (I am 56) and, hands down, for finish, luster, pop and durability, there is NO paint that can compete with Fine Paints of Europe Hollandlac. It is VERY important to use all products recommended and as directed but, once that is done you will find the resale value of EVERY piece you sell can be increased by 10 to 15% just from the look of the finish alone. FPOE is the ABSOLUTE best!
A few years ago I used Advanced on primed kitchen cabinets (super smooth crappy laminated dark wood cabinets that were not sanded but just primed with ziesner smart prime I believe)
It came out Ok, never had a problem with it not curing but I did leave the doors out in the harsh CO sunshine so they dried nicely. I see lot of folks like this at the home depot site CabinetCoat and you don’t have to use a primer. I end up using KILZ primer on some of them. Not a glass like glossy finish but they look OK for the cost and first time effort. I may try spraying Advanced with the bottom cabinets I still have to do in the next few week, who knows !?
I’ve used the advance on a vanity and a couple of side tables and I have to say I love it. I have not had the issue you spoke about it went in a dried I too allow to dry 24 hrs to ensure it is dry. I have used the Behr alkyd enamel and had issues with it being tacky and was worried this might be the same as it is an alkyd. I am currntky using in a kitchen table but will try a polycrylic top coat to ensure durability.
I have used Advance on several large built-ins, dining room table and chairs, and other items. All were sprayed with a Fugi 4 system and primed with BIN. Most were shades of white but the colored pieces turned out the same. Namely wonderful. I live in a low humidity area and that may be helpful because they cured quickly and were hard after about 3 weeks. ( And any finish that that takes days to become non tacky is quite possibly a defective batch.) That said I did thin the Advance to ~45sec so it would spray w/o orange peel. Two coats of BIN and two coats of Advance and i have a happy wife and I am very self pleased also.The house trim was brush painted and this product smoothes out beautifully. Their is a learning curve both for spraying and brushing and directions should be followed about curing times etc.
Fine Paints of Europe (finepaintsofeurope.com) seem really proud of their paints, and so do the painting companies on their website. They seem to have excellent results, and they provide reams of advice and instructions etc to get the optimum results. I’m currently looking at Hollandlac for kitchen cabinets.
Any comments?
I think the difference is all the pigment they have to put in the color to get it that bright. I use other products and it takes a long long time to cure
4 years ago, I used Advance Semi-Gloss in a color matched off-white to paint a large concave brick fireplace, hearth and brick wall (matched my trim color). The paint went on like a dream and has been as durable as the sales person promised it would, hardening very nicely. I cleaned the brick prior to painting, but because it was already newly coated with a flat white paint, I did nothing else to prep the surface. In this application, it’s been as or more durable than the oil base used on the rest of the home’s trim work.
More recently, I used Advance to paint some newly installed, pre-primed baseboard. Again, went on easily and, so far, has done very well.
Somehow it seems that to have so many comments both happy and disappointed on a highly touted, very expensive, major brand product is not actually a win for BM. I’ve been painting with BM Satin Impervo for over 20 years. I have never been unhappy with the product. It takes thorough prep and meticulous painting (I paint with a brush) and it comes out perfect every time with perfect leveling, coverage and durability. People are always surprised it wasn’t sprayed. But when I wanted to repaint our kitchen cabinets in our new house (new to us) I decided to use Advance products because I wanted the white to stay white and much of the kitchen doesn’t get a lot of daylight as it’s large and those areas would yellow with oil. I was also tempted with the thought of easier clean up. It was a mistake. I had 19 double cabinets: 40 doors, 13 drawers, along with book shelves and a coat nook, and of course trim. Being the ridiculous perfectionist I chose to paint the insides and out of each drawer and cabinet. Prep: 1. degrease with a mild degreaser like a dawn and water solution to get off dirt, food and grease. 2. rough up all surfaces with sanding to open up the gloss finish on the wood stain. 3. wipe clean 4. use Paso Deglosser as recommended 5. prime with Advance primer. 6. after 24 hours paint with Advance. 7. after 24 hours paint again (lightly go over before with steel wool if necessary to smooth out then remove all dust) 8. Repeat 7 for a third coat.
The finish looked great. smooth and although less thick than Impervo it had pretty good leveling. It looked sprayed and I had no drips (I”m a meticulous painter). I waited three days to put doors/drawers back on and over two weeks to put anything in the cabinets. The doors and drawers started chipping almost immediately. It was completed in November and any movement of the wood (we live in KS so hot/cold) caused the planets in the doors to crack at the connections. NO, not the insets, the edges where the outside frame of the doors are joined. Then, dings started showing in any places where there was human contact. I was devastated. The Island is painted with Satin Impervo in a color and it’s held up for years with almost no wear at all and it’s where I keep pots and pans and cook every night. I feel burned by Advance. I need to fix all of the cabinets and have no idea whether to repaint with oil, to try to fix with advance only to be disappointed again for an effort wasted, or to burn down the kitchen and move. Ugh.
I have been using Advance paint for over a year! I started using in kitchen and bathroom cabinets! And have been doing furniture. I’ve have no issue at all I love the paint it gives the smoothest surface I’ve found so far! With that said. It does have a 3-6 month cure time which means that’s when it’s at its hardest and most durable. But I am able to hang doors after a 4-5 day dry time, with no tacky ness. I prime and paint two coats each side I sand primer and the 1st coat of paint with – fine sanding block lightly and wipe with denatured alcohol best paint I’ve ever used! I live in Michigan. And I did do a job in Florida and I think the elevation and humidity play a part had a harder time with that application! My paint store guys told me Advance is not recommended to spray! I use Wooster green handle brushes and Wooster big green 4” rollercover, it’s a flawless finish! Prep is key. Gotta degrease and sand with 150 grit before priming and always wipe clean with denatured alcohol! It’s a tedious process but worth not having to use top coat. Which I used to do with GF milk paint and high performance but it yellows on whites and off whites for me!
Leigh
Hi, fellow Michigander.Reading your post in August, 2019. Painting my oak dining room table and chairs with Benjamin Moore advance paint. Like clarification on your procedure for painting furniture. Did you use two coats of primer and two coats of paint on all surfaces? Sounds as if you sanded the primer in the first coat of paint with a fine grit sanding block, then wiped down with denatured alcohol/water.
I roughed up the surface of the furniture,Then Used a liquid sandpaper product. Wiped down and let dry, then brushed on Stix primer. Wondering if I should now sand, and paint on a second coat of primer, or go to the first coat of advance.
Can you please clarify? Also, what primer did you use? Paint rep at the store said I only need one coat of Stix —but your post makes me think I should do two coats. Please let me know. Thank you
I used the Advance in a pearl finish color white for all of our interior doors, baseboards and cabinets and it turned out great.
Great to hear! Since this post I have used Advance in Satin on interiors doors, trim and laundry room cabinets. It’s help up pretty well so far and I will probably do an update covering my experience with the paint for those used.
Hi Reeves, I agree with you 250% on General Finishes “milk” paint for durability. I’m a professional finisher and it’s all I use for topcoats. I do many distressed / rustic / antique finishes where the paint is worn off (deliberately, by me) on the high spots but I want the wearing away to END once the piece exits my studio and to NOT continue happening in my client’s home!! The reason I found you is that I am now getting a request for a very black paint, and I know that GF’s “Lamp Black” might not be dark enough. The lamp black to me seems more of a very dark charcoal rather than a true black. I am very reluctant to move away from my topcoat of choice, and wondering if I can blacken the GFMP using something like Sumi ink. I have added quite a few different tints to the GF paint in the past, to make my own colors. It hasn’t even given a hint of falling apart or of failing in any way despite that. If you have an opinion on this please fire away – thanks, Suzanne
Oh – regarding Gen. Finishes milk paint: Did I mention, self-priming // sprays out of my ancient HVLP gun perfectly every time without any addtives // easy to spray without runs or glops // gorgeous sheen // sands beautifully //
I never want to use any other product.
Since we are on topic, I have sprayed / brushed B.M.’s advance, but reluctantly. These were on built-in projects in which the client had used the product already in the home.
It comes out in glops with my spray gun unless I thin with their reducer and doesn’t cover well (even their whites don’t) and therefore requires recoating.
Hi, I have only pretty limited experience with Advance, but wasn’t extremely impressed at it. One paint that used to be very good was Muralo Ultra. With Muralo Ultra it did in fact dry as hard as oil, but was a standard 4 hour dry time paint, with only 2-4 days or so to cure to rock hard. I even on personal furniture items put it on over oil based paint and poly with only a light scuff sand of the poly and not sanding oil at all and it stuck 100% perfect and was rock hard after curing. Muralo’s difference as I understand it was it was a latex paint, but alcohol based instead of glycol or ammonia based like other latexes usually are, so that’s why it had really good adhesion.
I tried the newer California Ultra (company who bought Muralo out) and I feel unfortunately it’s not quite as good as Muralo, but still pretty good. Nothing after a week out of the job was tacky enough for things to stick or anything, but it went from rock hard to just pretty hard after the branding switch and leveling is not quite as good anymore :/ I’m tempted to try California Ultraplate (their cabinet paint) or Nextech (Nextech is their WB hybrid competitor to Advance) or their Ultra ceramic paint, and maybe those will be harder, but there’s a very limited number of California dealers where I live compared to BM.
https://i.imgur.com/nD0B7qrl.jpg
These were some factory primed MDF doors on a customer’s job done with Muralo Ultra High Gloss and simply rolled on with a microfiber roller. Truly was amazing stuff. 🙁
Hi my name is Bill.
I enjoyed reading your post and wanted make a few comments which I hope might help.
I sell paint for a living and wanted to give out some knowledge of paint.
For the most part there are three main bases of paint white, medium and deep. The last two may have different names but are the same thing.
All three bases start out as the same thing, deep base (no color
Added)a clear base.
Titanium dioxide(white colorant)added at about 30% to 40% makes it a medium base. The amount added varies by manufacturer. Also being an expensive colorant makes the price go up.
Next up white base or just pure white, has about 70% to 90% white added.
1st one deep for making dark colors
2nd one medium for mid-tones
3rd one white for just plain white or off whites and light colors.
Now another important part of the issue, the colorants added at the paint store.
Colorants are made by suspending pigment powders into a medium. This medium is made to not dry out, in the machines they’re dispensed from.
Too much of the colorant added to the paint will make the paint not dry correctly, stay sticky,tacky, chip easy,peeling, and a host of issues.
This problem is more common in darker colors, so paint problems may not equate to a bad paint but instead bad formulations!
White paint usually not a problem, because white powder(not suspended in the liquid medium) is usually directly added to the base paint.
1 last point, colorants with oxides(metal based) have better coverage, so darks with more colorants that don’t have oxides are more transparent. These are going to take a lot of coats.
Yes??
I’m getting ready to paint my oak kitchen cabinets and I am on a quest to find the best paint. I’m so confused. Some people swear by one thing and others say no it’s horrible. Would General Finishes Milk Paint be good with their topcoat? Do I need to do anything special with the oak grain before painting? I am just so fearful of having a chippy mess?
I just painted all my oak kitchen cabinets that had a previous stain/finish and loved BM Advance. Dry time is long between coats. I sprayed doors and drawers. Rolled/brushed cabinet bases. TIps:
1. I used Insl-x Stix primer and it is amazing. I used 2 coats, mainly because I really was avoiding sanding. I had 33 doors/drawers.
2. Using BM advance Paint- I found that i got foaming/frothing (tiny bubbles) with a foam roller (labeled for cabinets). I switched to a shur-line velour roller and it was perfect. spraying was super simple and covered well.
I’ve done alot of oak cabinets and used advance, proclassic and ppgs breakthrough paint, i never had an issue with either one, but for faster drying i would recommend breakthrough, but if you want that true semi gloss you should have to either go with advance or proclassic because breakthrough didn’t have semi gloss, only satin and gloss.
Are your cabinets painted already or they raw?
So I called BM about their Advance and they suggested applying a waterbased polyurethane on a table top about three to five days after painting with a light sanding in between. That is contrary to what everyone has posted. Any opinions on that?
I have always loved using Muralo paint. It dries rock hard, sprays and coats beautifully. I was recently convinced by my local Benjamin Moore retailer to use Advance, because I was having difficulty with color matching a dark navy color. The results were disastrous. The entire library is still a sticky tacky mess 2 months later.
I really wish I could get a nice solid dark color mixed with the Muralo
I painted my kitchen cabinets last year, with Advance satin. They look marvelous and not a single issue with dings or paint not adhering, as in the main post. Anyone that is painting wood stained cabs that have a shellac or varnished finish, you absolutely must use a shellac-based primer. Using the Advance primer is not going to give the adhesion that is needed on finished wood cabs. Use Zinsser B.I.N. primer, and sand well between all coats.
Never in my life have I had so much difficulty with a paint!!! I’m painting an interior, factory primed mdf, glass pocket door. I gave the door a light sanding with 200 grit before attempting to paint. I vacuumed it after sanding, then wiped it down well with a lint-free cloth, even using alcohol to make sure it’s clean. Let it dry for an hour before trying to paint again.
I’ve tried painting in warm weather (dried way too fast), cool weather, applying less, applying more, with a brush only, with a roller then brushed within 10 seconds of applying using a good quality (Purdy XL) brush. Bubbles all over the place and they don’t go away. The can was shaken when I first got it, but that was over a month ago. I’ve only gently stirred it since then. It doesn’t appear to have bubbles in it when I pour it into the tray.
I’m really sick of having to sand off the bubbles and repaint. Always the same frustrating result. This from the most expensive paint I’ve ever bought.
I notice there alot of conversation on painting furniture with wall paint. There are beautiful paints put there designed specifically for painting furniture that are worth exploring and may reduce your frustrations. I have to add I have been painting furniture for over 5 years AND I work at a Benjamin Moore store. While Advance is recommended to customers for kitchen cabinets & furniture it is never sold to the customer without the proper primer – mostly Stix, sometimes a Zinsser product. In my opinion I find the best paint for furniture is Fusion Mineral paint. It has a built in top coat, is self leveling, quick dry & recoat times, you can make your own colours by mixing them yourself plus the website has tons of “recipes”for creating more colours. The paint is made from 100% Industrial grade resins, is sold worldwide & and was invented by a solid paint company. I think what it comes down to is use the paint designed for the job ! Hope this is useful.
Have been a painter for over 30 years and have painted hundreds of cabinet doors and drawers using sherwin williams , never had any problems. Was turned on to BM Advance and what a nightmare, the paint is great but it was a total lack of knowledge given to me by the owner of the Bm paint store. That being said i will make this short and sweet, do all of your normal prepping however you desire. When it comes to spraying using an airless sprayer DO NOT USE AN GRACO (FFLP 212) tip!!!!! It will appear as someone tossed sand into your paint job. Trust me this was a very valuable lesson. Because this paint is just as thin as a stain, i decided to use a rack 5/ 211 tip and the BM Advance goes on like butter!!!! Will probably go back to using SW products (pro classic )…
I wish I had read this article 3 weeks ago. My project was painting my kitchen cabinets. I was determined to spend the money an expensive paint, in order to obtain a great outcome, and initially I was looking to buy General Finishes, but the sales person recommended Benjamin Moore Advanced as a better paint for cabinets. Using this paint was a nightmare! Good that I didn’t have to paint doors! The paint is difficult to apply, no matter what brush I used (I even tried the sponge), as it is thick, so by the time I got to the end of the surface, the other end almost dried, so it was very difficult to apply a smooth coat from one side to the other, as I had to keep going back with the brush to smooth the paint on the surface, so it won’t leave marks. I tried thin coat, I tried thick coat. This paint is supposed to be “self-leveling”. Pffft. No matter what I did, it still dried with brush marks. The paint starts drying fast, but it takes a long time to totally dry, so after one week, the doors of the cabinets still stick to the cabinet frame. I ended up applying up to 3 coats of paint (over 1-2 coats of primer) to try to obtain a nice smooth surface (I used a satin finish), sanding after each coat of course, and I was still unhappy with the outcome, to the point that I ended up using a polyurethane top-coat! Very disappointed!
My guess is that because it is such an intense orange the Gennex (and employees) should have suggested a deep base primer to help with coverage and even durability. Some colourants like the 01 and Y2 don’t hold up as well as most. Especially outside. Aura semi gloss has great coverage with vibrant colours and durability.
I used advanced paint and very happy with the results. I painted my coffee and end table that are heavily used.I was told to sand and prime then paint. Wait at least 24 hours before applying the 2nd coat . THEN I would wait at least 2 weeks before placing anything on them . Yes my paint was a cream colour. Love the durability . I use a wet cloth to wipe it down when I clean . My husband always has his lap top on it . I’ve had no problem with durability, chipping or anything. I will now paint my fireplace and t.v. unit to match .
I am currently using advance in satin. My issues are bubbles in the paint. I’ve used a foam roller, regular roller for smooth surfaces and a paint brush. Still bubbles. All my cabinets are flat. I was thinking rolling this paint on would be a breeze. Even when I open the can, bubbles everywhere. Even before mixing. So upset. Is there a different cabinet paint I can go over With? Or what am I doing wrong. I cleaned, sanded and primed the cabinets. Very upset.
I’ve been using advance for couple of years for cabinets and furniture and besides learning on how it runs so easily I haven’t had any issues with it not drying or curing as the writer here. I love both advance and proclassic the finish is amazing when sprayed and prepped correctly, i don’t ever water down the paint, this paints dont needed, I recently tried ppgs breakthrough and like how fast it tacks up but the sheen levels are not equal and only come in satin or gloss which bugs me since I use semi gloss for most of my finishes. I don’t have any negative comments about this packings besides the sheen level difference.
I used BM advance in semi gloss Bavarian white on book shelves and would never use it again. I am a diehard BM user primarily because they have almost no odor but this one was extremely stinky. It took over 3 weeks to cure and the smell was horrible. I was leaving doors and windows open in March to get the smell out. It does seem to be quite durable and non-sticky once it cures.
Never had any issues with advance. You have to follow the instructions on the technical data sheet available on Benjamin Moore website. Use correct primer since this paint is not self-priming. I personally like to use STIX primer. And it doesn’t dry well if relative humidity is over 50%. It needs 30 days to completely cure with relative humidity under 50%.
Several years ago, I turned an extra bedroom into a study/den for my daughter, and I asked the paint guy at my local Home Depot what I should use on the desk that I made (it is a solid core door panel that I cut to fit the closet. I wanted a glossy and very hard finish.
He sold me a pint of Behr’s best oil based primer, and he told me to pick up some Impervex from BM. – It is fantastic! I have stood on it with my shoes on it several times – to fix the track lights that I installed above it – and zero marks or scuffs.
I’m thinking about doing my trim in that paint.
Classic — If I used an interior paint, even if it was top of the line, it would fail.
Lesson? Use the right tool for the job.
If you’re looking for a furniture finish, you should be applying a conversion varnish, 2k polyurethane, or similar. waterborne alkyd enamel is not furniture grade. Works great on trim and doors, but I would never put it on furniture (unless I put a 2k poly clear over the top).
I built my daughter a dollhouse bookcase as well as re-finished an old family dresser and nightstand for her. The entire project was a LOT of work but I loved doing it because it was for my daughter. When it came time to paint the BM salesrep recommend the Advanced paint. I stumbled on this thread after just finishing the final coat for both and am a little horrified a made a big mistake because of all the effort I put into both pieces. Would anyone recommend applying a coat of poly over top of the Advance to avoid any of the issues people have been having? A bit of background…I sanded well and sprayed 2-3 coats of primer before painting with an HVLP gun. Then I did about 4 coats of Advance again with the HVLP. Colours are white and light grey. The dollhouse and dresser will have books on it that might sit for a while so I’m really worried about tack.
Does Advance perform better if Floetrol is added? If so, what ratio of Floetrol to paint?
I painted my oak kitchen cabinets 4 years ago with Advance satin. I cleaned them and very lightly sanded. I primed with kilz water based stain blocking primer. Then I gave the cabinets 3 coats of paint, waiting at least 16 hours between coats. They still look like they did when I finished painting them. I have touched up a few tiny dings. But these stand up to wear and cleaning amazingly well. It absolutely shows no brush marks. The grain of the oak is slightly visible but in a good way. I would highly recommend.
Used BM Advance in gloss black on my piano. It was terrible. So thick and crazy ridges with every brush stroke, even after I took it back to the paint store and they thinned it with water. I ended up sanding off the texture [not fun] re-priming, sanding again [ugh] and using Rustoleum enamel paint with Penetrol. 100% better. Advance is no bueno.
Hi, I know you wrote this post a couple of years ago so you are probably tired of hearing about it. I’ve had great experiences with BM Advance, never a problem until a couple of people in the last few months who were interested in buying my pieces read your review about the paint and quickly changed their minds. I googled reviews and your review pops right up. The title of it says it all. It doesn’t say it’s your truth, but THE truth. It’s just implying that the truth is that it doesn’t work. That’s how it was interpreted by the last sale that ended up not happening. . People don’t go through and read everything in the review, they don’t usually have the patience. So they pick and choose the key elements. They just took away all the negatives. I just had someone this morning wanting to buy a dresser and she wanted to know the paint brand, type etc. we had been talking quite a bit. Now she’s not answering my messages.
I don’t mean to be a jerk, really! I’m just frustrated right now. If someone else wants to know, and they see that almost feel like telling them I used a different brand. I’m not going to do that, I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night, haha.
I have used Advance only once to repaint a bathroom cabinet. I used a very dark grey and while the recoat times were OK the paint didn’t seem hard in fingernail testing for a while.
A few things pertinent to paint. First is that normal wall paint has a full cure time of 30 days. Contrast that to a dry to touch time of 2 hours or recoat in 4. Failing to consider that can lead to trim plates and picture frames sticking to paint that isn’t fully cured. It won’t happen all the time but if it does, that is why.
Advance is an alkyd resin in a waterbased suspension. Alkyd is the resin of old school oil based paint. The benefit of alkyd resin is hardness and the drawback is the tendency to yellow. Alkyds have those characteristics whether water or oil based.
My cabinet had excellent leveling in the paint and a very smooth finish. I would give Advance high marks for that. You will have problems if you overwork the paint- once you lose your wet edge resist the temptation to go back and brush more. Using the correct extender can help with that.
The author had very different experiences with a light color and a deep color. The amount of pigment in the paint affects the cure time and the darker the pigment the longer it is. I would estimate my cure time well beyond 30 days.
Many painters use Advance for interior trim work in houses where extended cure times would be a major problem. The key is to stick to lighter colors for that.
Advance is not a bad product. It does require understanding its limitations but any paint requires that. If your customers are objecting to the use of Advance, stop advertising that you use it. Be aware that painting a dresser in a dark color will require holding it through an extended cure time before delivering to a customer safely.
Other furniture/cabinet paints exist such as Cabinet Coat, PPG Breakthrough, California Ultraplate. I am sure each has it’s unique issues and the painter has to work through them.
Two projects is not enough to condemn a product overall. I’m not a fan of Advance but would use it another time in a lighter color. I used Breakthrough on a project and while it’s hard to apply it sticks to anything and is tough as nails. I am about to redo my kitchen cabinets in the UltraPlate, which is considered to be the best for that purpose.
I know this is an old thread, however if anyone is interested.
I love Advance and the key element I have found to this paint for perfect trim and cabinets is:
Adding Benjamin Moore Paint Extender 518
adding this to Advance gives a glass finish, levels extremely well, and dries/cures really hard.
*also take note of previous commenters regarding prep.
It seems that if you have to buy something, like an extender or any other additive, to an already expensive paint, then there’s something wrong with the paint! You should be able to use it straight out of the can. Thanks for all the comments. I am trying to decide on a paint for my newel posts and handrail. Lots to think about!
I painted my oak kitchen cabinets (originally a honey oak color) in the winter of 2017/18 with Benjamin Moore advance and this spring–2020 they are showing cracks in the paint along the peaks of the trim. I’m so sad…I will have to redo this project and am not happy at all. FYI my process was to sand the cabinets, apply white primer, and then 3 coats of paint. The first coat went on like Elmers glue, very very hard to brush on. So I let it dry for quite awhile and then lightly sanded as there were large brushstrokes due to the thickness of the paint. So I called Benjamin Moore customer service and asked how to thin the paint (since it was a water/oil hybrid) and the agent who spoke to me said you cannot thin it! So, I went ahead with another coat thinking maybe I should just brush quicker or something, not wanting to turn back at this point especially after the expense of the paint. I applied coat #2. Same exact situation. At this point I had to stop for the holidays and rethink what I was doing. After 1 1/2 months I called customer service again and told them what was going on and this time I was told you CAN thin the paint….with water. So I did, just enough to make the paint glide on well. Finally it looked great, everyone commented on how beautiful they looked. Well…fast forward to exactly 2 years later and there are cracks through all three layers of paint on practically every cabinet door in various spots. I am sick at the prospect of having to redo all my efforts.
We redid all our kitchen cabinets with BM Advance last year. It looks amazing, is holding up really well, we couldn’t be happier. Cleaned all cabinets with Dawn + water, then denatured alcohol, then sanded with 200 grit on an electric sander. I took all the doors off and painted them on sawhorses. Using a Wagner 3000 HVLP sprayer I put two thin but complete coats of Stix primer (one in the morning and one in the afternoon) and let it dry overnight. Also did two coats of the BM Advance. Upper cabinets got the untinted white, lowers got a very dark/charcoal grey. We did one coat per day until it was done. Painting was in a detached garage, so when overnight lows were below 60F we stopped painting until it had been warmer for a couple days. This paint seems very picky about what temp it goes on and cures at. When I tried to paint on a very hot day, the paint quickly got “goopy” and threw blobs out of the gun. Tried again next morning when it was cooler and no problem. It took a lot of days with such a slow recoat schedule, but the finish turned out great. Everything is smooth, run and bubble free, it cured nice and hard in about 2 weeks, the couple very small dings we have are from the period between application and full cure. I would use it again, but not on a project that I was in a rush for.
I just used this Advance paint because the sales girl recommended it.. I have pine countertops in my new She Shed. I primed them first then put a coat of this paint on when that was dry. I waited more than 16 hrs and then put on a second coat. well that was 10 days ago and it still isn’t dry…. The color I used was a dark green, Ben Moore rep told me it was because of the dark color and a horizontal surface. Im worried that it will never dry.. I wished I never used this paint! Im wondering if I can put a sealer over this now. The rep told me to put a fan towards it but that didn’t help either. The temp is 70 and climate controlled inside.
Maybe it will never dry, like some other people have said…
I hear this a lot from the advanced BM product.. I own a professional cabinet shop and paint our cabinets with this product almost exclusively. We’ve had no problems with this paint like you and others describe. I will say, richer colors such as oranges, reds, blues and purples take much longer to cure between coats due to the pigments (this is true with any paints) So, it’s not surprising that your white painted project acted differently to the red project.
Here is the system that we use that we’ve been successful with….
1. using the correct primer is very important as well as making sure it is properly cured and scuff sanded (120 grit) before applying the coats of advanced. your paint consultant will recommend the correct paint after discussing your project (new wood, existing coatings..etc)
2. proper cure times and sanding between coats with 220 is essential. we do coat pretty quickly between coats in low humidity. (30-45Mins) in cool and high humidity it will take considerably longer to cure.. use the finger nail test to check .
3. We use BM brush additive when applying the advanced product.. roll, brush and spray.. it helps the product flow and level evenly.
4. it’s not a race.. take your time and don’t rush.
Hope this helps with anyone using this product in the future..
I also know this is an old thread!
I wish i had read it before i spent hours painting my bathroom vanity with Advance (colour Habanero) Semi. I primed with Aqua Lock and then spent hours fighting the paint every step of the way. It’s like trying to sand unhardened glue! Very frustrating experience. I am currently doing the drawers because the unit is installed and the drawers are the only part left to do. Found your blog while looking for pointers to help with finishing this piece nicely. Sadly it will always look like old repainted furniture – not the nice new piece it is. Thanks for your insight and i am certainly going to look into buying a spray gun.
I used the advance paint on my kitchen cabinets and after many hours of work it looked great for about 2 mths before it started chipping off very easily in many spots. Very disappointed that I spent so many hours using this paint.
BM Advance and SW Emerald Urethane are popular choices for the homeowner redoing kitchen cabinets or painting furniture in solid colors. Those wanting to spray these types of emulsion finishes love the water cleanup. Moreover, both companies extol the virtues of their respective products but it is important to remember that professional finishers, as opposed to professional painters, shy away from these products, preferring coating technologies that are far superior. Unfortunately those technologies involve solvent based industrial products, UV light cured finishes, etc., etc. So, we either pay a professional finisher to have a truly durable finish, or we struggle ourselves with brushes, rollers, gravity or pressure pot HVLP guns, airless sprayers, or whatever we think we can make work. Sometimes we get lucky.
I’m posting my experiences with Advance here because this comments section seems to be the go-to place for discussions of this type of paint. I painted some bathroom cabinets with pretty good results, although it’s not as easy as latex paint. The process I followed was:
-clean well with Krud Kutter
-degloss with Krud Kutter deglosser (probably overkill since i also sanded)
-hand sand with 200, then 400 grit
-Wipe down with rag dampened with alcohol
-prime fixed surfaces on the cabinets with one coat of Stix
-prime cabinet doors and drawer faces with two coats of RustOleum Universal Bonding Spray Primer. I used this because I could move the doors to a well-ventilated garage, and spray priming is just faster than brushing.
-Paint with one coat of Advance semi-gloss. Even though I was covering the light-colored primer with a very dark color (Hale Navy), one coat was fine. I used a thin brush and a small flocked foam roller (Wooster Brush RR310-4 1/2 Jumbo-Koter Big Green Paint Roller). I cleaned the roller first with water to get any lint off.
The big problem I had was that I did this in the middle of a New York summer, which means high humidity. The paint remained tacky for days, and I had to wait a week to flip the cabinet doors over to paint the other side without damaging the paint job on the first side. The cabinets remained slightly tacky for a few weeks, but they finally dried fully after about 30-45 days (moving the doors to an air-conditioned room helped). While painting, I didn’t have the problems others noted with the paint drying too fast. The paint is not completely self-leveling and one can see roller marks in some places if you squint. But really this is a minor imperfection, and the cabinets look amazing.
I’m happy enough with the result that I’m going to repeat the process with our master bath cabinets – this time in fall or winter.